The following is a compilation of postings from USENET.REC.BACKCOUNTRY from June-July 1994 on the subject of Radios For Emergency Use =============================================== Thu Jun 30 11:09:56 1994 Message : #14552352 From: Andrew J. L. Cary Address : andrew.cary@syntex.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 417 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use Paul Antaki writes: >I'm interested in using a transceiver for emergencies and I'm just >wondering what frequencies are normally used and if anyone has any >experience with small handhelds that would be practical in the >backcountry. Hmm. For years and years I thought WTs were a terrible idea in the backcountry. Excess weight with no conceivable use because of basically line of sight range.. THEN I was on Mt Shasta when someone had a 300 lb piece of cliff fall on them (nasty things- pieces of cliff) and munge up his leg. We used a 3w CB on channel 9 to punch through to the Forest service and by-and-by a helicopter came by to take him away. The biggest problem was yakity fisherman on channel 9 (the EMERGENCY panel). The message got to the FS about 3 hours faster then the runner did. (yes we sent a runner too). The dialog went something like: "Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta...Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta..." "Yup! Caught some ten pounders off the forebay..." "Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta...Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta..." "What's that noise about some Maytag?! Dang kids.." "Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta...Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta..." "THIS IS THE US FOREST SERVICE. CLEAR THIS CHANNEL FOR EMERGENCY TRAFFIC." "Jeez. You'd think they owned this channel" "Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta...Mayday, Mayday This is Mt Shasta..." "MT SHASTA MAYDAY. THIS IS BLACK MT LOOKOUT. WHAT IS THE NATURE OF YOUR MAYDAY?" The real problem with WTs is range. In some areas a celluar phone might work better. In the western mts. range is often limited by ridges and such. (trails usually wander in canyons.) I carry a handheld CB whenever I sea kayak. A good quality CB or radio telephone works well line of sight. Thats why we were able to use it on Shasta which sticks up all by itself. Someone else can address the issue of ham radio and commercial RT ... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew J L Cary, Senior Curmudgeon : In general, these are my opinions & CBDM, Development Research : do not reflect those of my employers Syntex (USA) Inc, Palo Alto, CA 94301: they ARE welcome to use them --------------------------------------------------------------------------- =========================================================================== Thu Jun 30 14:10:36 1994 Message : #14557837 From: Hal Lillywhite Address : hall@macs.ico.tek.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 1001 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use Paul Antaki writes: >I'm interested in using a transceiver for emergencies... OK, I'll repost this. It is not up to what I would want for an FAQ and I hope someone more qualified than I will write something better, either starting from scratch or using this as a basis: There are several means of electronic communication available for use in the backcountry. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. For those interested in such things here is my summary: CB Radio: Advantages: Relatively cheap one shot cost to purchase the radio, no monthly fees, no license required. Disadvantages: Highly uncertain if you will be able to contact anyone. Range is very limited except for unreliable "skips." If you are close to a major highway you could probably reach a trucker but from most backcountry you would be lucky to contact anyone who could help in an emergency. CB is useful in talking between members of a group who may be separated by a mile or so. Cellular Phone: Advantages: Easiest to use, no license required. Disadvantages: Expensive. Relatively high monthly fees are required plus the initial cost of the equipment. (However some people already have them for business reasons so added expense is only the cost for the calls placed.) Worse, coverage is *very* limited, in some areas it is quite good but at present these are definitely the exception in the back country. If you are very far from the road a cellular probably won't work. Note that cellular is in a state of rapid change. It is a new technology and both technological progress and competition are driving down equipment prices and expanding coverage quite rapidly. Whatever I write here is likely to no longer be true 3-6 months from now. The companies in this business are looking at the "one person one phone number" concept. Eventually they hope to have everybody carry their own phone everywhere and be reachable pretty much anywhere in the world. That might be tolerable as long as the phone has an off switch. "Ham" Radio (2 meter FM): Advantages: Repeaters provide the best coverage of any small, lightweight communication device commonly available. At least in the U.S. if you can get to a reasonably high place you can nearly always contact someone (buy a repeater directory, about $6, to find the frequencies). Many of these repeaters offer direct access to emergency service agencies (or even the regular phone system). These amateur frequencies are also widely used all over the world. In some cases one country will allow you to transmit based on your license from a different country. Repeater availibility also varies with country. Check rules etc. in the country where you plan to travel. Disadvantages: A license is required. You must pass a test. However to use 2 meter you only need a "No-code technician" license so you don't need to learn code (at least in the U.S.). Radios for this band are priced from around $200 to about as much as you care to spend. Used radios are also available at lower prices (many hams want the latest and greatest so they sell their older equipment). At least one model (Icom H16) will legally do both ham and commercial frequencies (including search and rescue frequencies). Other models will work on both 2 meter and 70 cm (70 cm is also good but not as useful in the backcountry as 2 meter). Hand-held radios in this band come with "rubber duck" antennas which have limited efficiency but can still reach repeaters at distances up to and occasionally beyond 100 miles depending on conditions. A telescoping antenna (about $30) is useful and extends the range, often considerably depending on conditions. Lower Frequency Ham Radios: Advantages: Very reliable contact. Literally can make contact from pretty much anywhere in the world. By choosing the proper frequency you can usually contact someone without the need for a repeater, even over very long distances. These are the radios ham's use to talk half way around the world although they often have fancy antennas that type of performance also requires a larger, heavier battery pack than most people want to carry into the backcountry. Disadvantages: License harder to get than for 2 meter (code is required). Worse, the equipment is not nearly as portable as 2 meter and you usually need to set up a long antenna for reliable use. Except for major expeditions I don't know of anybody who takes these into the backcountry. A general note on radios: Although a license is required for normal use, *anybody* who knows how to operate one may do so in an emergency, at least in the U.S. This is allowed only for the communications necessary to deal with the emergency. Of course few people are going to spend the money to get a radio which they can use only in an emergency, nearly all radio owners are licensed. However this rule is an advantage to the non-licensed members of a group where one has a radio. If the licensed operator is incapacitated someone else can operate the radio in an emergency. Of course this unlicensed operator better hope the FCC agrees that it was a real emergency, otherwise he will likely pay a *big* fine (possibly thousands of dollars). ============================================================================ Thu Jun 30 16:09:50 1994 Message : #14561722 From: Duane P Mantick Address : wb9omc@constellation.ecn.purdue.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 938 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use hall@macs.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes: > Lower Frequency Ham Radios: > Disadvantages: License harder to get than for 2 meter... There *are* some radios in this category that are reasonably smallish, although not so much as a 2 meter handheld. As for "major expeditions", not so. Those of us who operate "QRP" (low power, "officially" less than 5 watts) are quite fond of carrying a battery powered rig into the wilds, and setting up a QRP operation. Most of these do tend to be Morse Code jockeys (as a CW rig is less complex, less heavy and generally less battery-hoggish than a voice radio), but a few of us stubborn old cusses :-) will lug around the sideband 10 meter rig..... :-) These are largely individual operations, and have been getting quite nicely refined and coordinated, too. >A general note on radios: Although a license is required for >normal use, *anybody* who knows how to operate one may do so >in an emergency, at least in the U.S. This is allowed only >for the communications necessary to deal with the emergency. I would NOT want to have unlicensed folks trying to rely on this as their means of communications. If the FCC snags you for unlicensed operation and does NOT accept your "emergency" as being that, you could be fined up to $100,000 AND spend one year in the slammer. Getting the new code-free Technician Class license is EASY, EASY and more EASY for anyone with a few functioning brain cells. You don't NEED to be a hot electronics jockey to get this stuff, and unless something has changed, passing grade on the written exam is 74% or thereabouts. If you can do it THAT well, you get licensed. LOTS of people are hams. Yeah, there are us engineer types. There are also doctors, lawyers, preachers, biologists (like my wife), little kids (I have talked to kids on the radio in the 10, 11 and 12 year old range who ARE licensed), you name it. There are blind hams, deaf hams, otherwise physically challenged hams. Yup, hikers, climbers and outdoorsy types, too. :-) Quite frankly, yes - that is a plug to get more people into the hobby. :-) But what the hell - if it's good for YOU and it's good for ham radio, GREAT! Who knows? You might even find you like the hobby enough to *expand* your horizons and get into the other aspects, like packet radio (computers over the air), moonbounce, satellite work, DX (long distance contacts) and more more MORE! NOW - having said all of that, back to the original question. If I were really going to want to feel maximally covered at minimum weight/hassle..... If in a mountainous region, I'd take BOTH a 2 meter handheld AND a CB handheld. Reason - 2 meters, at 144-148 megahertz, has a signal that tends to move in VERY straight lines. From a mountaintop, 2 meters can be dynamite. BUT - if you're stuck down in a valley someplace, 2 meters is very likely to suck eggs...the signal will hit the mountain sides, bounce straight up and do nothing for you. On the other hand, CB is at 27 megahertz, and can do all sorts of funny things in the way of bouncing off the ionosphere and back down and to a certain extent can penetrate solid objects that a 2 meter signal will NOT, or not very well. 2 meters is what we hams call "line-of-sight", which means if you can see it, you can probably talk to it. :-) While repeaters are great, you've got to be able to get your signal TO it in order to use it. If something is blocking your line of sight (like a few gazillion metric tons of rock), it is not likely to work too well. I wouldn't run CB into the ground, myself. Channel 9 is often monitored by REACT teams in many areas. 100 bazillion truckers have them. Another bazillion ordinary folks have them. Kids have them. If you're not hiking in the mountains, you'd probably be OK with the 2 meter rig only. There are still areas that are probably out of reach of some repeater or another, but getting to be fewer all the time. Get your ham license. Take your rig hiking. Enjoy the outdoors AND Amateur Radio. Duane 20 years a ham WB9OMC on the air wb9omc@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu on the internet ========================================================================= Thu Jun 30 17:08:45 1994 Message : #14563499 From: Jim Chott Address : rzaa80@email.mot.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 347 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use (Alan Dove) wrote: > About the only system I know of which is accessible to > the average citizen and which covers most of North America, including > backcountry areas, is amateur radio. I agree. Amateur radio is a good way to stay in communication if you have to. I just passed my Technician no-code test and just purchased a radio. It's not the latest, but it works. It weighs about one pound and is 2"x1.5"x6" and will basically transmit to any repeater you can see, even if it is over a hundred miles away with 5 Watts. I take it hiking and four wheeling, partly because I am engineer and like dinking with electronics and partly because the desert is not very forgiving in the summer. Most of the repeaters (at least in AZ) are on the 144MHz (2m) and 440MHz (70cm) bands, and the little radio I have is a dual bander on both of these. Unless you are trapped in a narrow canyon which doesn't point at a repeater, you should be able to get help from most anywhere. -- Jim Chott Motorola Dust Devils 4WD Club rzaa80@email.mot.com Tempe, AZ =========================================================================== Fri Jul 8 12:49:55 1994 Message : #14771793 From: Duane P Mantick Address : wb9omc@constellation.ecn.purdue.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 720 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use >n article wb9omc@constellation.ecn.purdue.edu writes: >[About lower frequency ham radios in the backcountry] >>There *are* some radios in this category that are reasonably smallish, >>although not so much as a 2 meter handheld... I think before I or anyone else should submit something for an FAQ, a little broader concensus might be a good idea. I am but one person, and I will have to say to be honest that I am *NOT* what most of the readers of this group would call a real backcountry hiker in any sense of the phrase. Some further input from those who ARE and DO carry radios would be extremely useful. Hence, I have crossposted to rec.radio.amateur.misc. My goal in doing so is NOT to create a clutter about "you gotta have a license" since we have been all through that already, but to get perhaps a better cross-section of hams who are hikers/backpackers/campers and find out WHAT they carry, WHEN they carry it, etc. If we're going to put some of this into an FAQ, we ought to try and get it right (whatever "right" actually is :-) ). To give you an idea, there are some incredibly small 2meter handhelds on the market these days. Downside: reduced wattage out. There are some really dandy portable 2meter antennas that disassemble and make a passable hiking staff! I think perhaps also crossposting to rec.radio.cb is in order to get some input from them, too. Might as well be reasonably inclusive. This is also NOT an invitation to get into the "ham vs. CB" debate. Perhaps some general guidlines/thoughts should be in order for radio gear to be carried whilst hiking. I would think that desireable characteristics would be: 1) lightweight 2) as physically small in size as possible to get the job done 3) antenna simple to use and somewhat ruggedized 4) minimal "tuning" of any kind required 5) reasonably battery efficient - keeps down on how much extra battery and/or charger you might need to also carry 6) battery that can be trickle charged with a small solar panel (I have seen these for AA NiCads - the panel is maybe 4 inches by 4 inches at the most, and the niftiest ones clip onto the TOP of a backpack so that a set of batteries can be trickle charging all day while you hike) 6a) speaking of commonly available NiCads, I will point something out about the 2meter handheld that I use, the Icom IC02AT. I have an accessory battery pack that lets you put in either 8 AA Alkalines OR 8 AA NiCads. Yes, the voltages are different. 8 Alkalines = 12 volts, which will allow you to achieve pretty much full power. 8 NiCads = 10 volts, which gives a bit less power output but *IS* rechargeable either IN the pack or separately as you wish. The IC02AT (which I'm sorry to say is either not made anymore or soon will cease being made from what I am told) is NOT a very small rig, nor especially lightweight as "modern" handhelds go. But IMHO, for a rig to carry in the hiking mode, the battery flexibility and voltage/power flexibility is hard to beat. I would think that such flexibility would be highly desireable. I do not know if any of the currently available CB (that's 11 meters, BTW, for those who don't know) radios have these kind of features. I have been away from CB for quite a few years, so I'm not as familiar with those units. My *guess* is that for CB handhelds, Radio Shack is probably the best place to start. ******** OK, let's see what we get. Responders, PLEASE try to limit this discussion to the topic of "good radio gear to use while hiking in the backcountry for emergency purposes". Duane ========================================================================== Fri Jul 8 12:50:06 1994 Message : #14771824 From: Hal Lillywhite Address : hall@macs.ico.tek.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 450 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use wb9omc@constellation.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >I think before I or anyone else should submit something for an >FAQ, a little broader concensus might be a good idea... I understand the concern that someone will say. "We have a radio, let's go ahead even though we wouldn't without the radio." However I suspect this seldom happens. I had a similar concern here when they started using the Mt. Hood Locator Units (radio beacons to be carried by climbers and activated if necessary). I was afraid that people would take chances and get into trouble because they had an MLU. However experience has not confirmed these fears. Although many climbers carry MLU's, and many get into trouble there has only been one case of a lost person having one. I suspect that the climbers using them are the most safety conscious and hence the least likely to get into trouble. The same thing will probably happen with those carrying radios. ========================================================================== Fri Jul 8 12:51:17 1994 Message : #14771994 From: Robert Smits Address : emd@ham.island.net Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 591 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:(deleted) Assuming that you're serious (I've never seen the magazine you mention), and that what you want is emergency communications, I suggest you use a portable cellular telephone - since you don't need any special license, can talk directly to public safety agencies, and presently have coverage in most of North America as well. I would not suggest portable CB radios - mainly because none of the ones I have seen were terribly compact or rugged, the antennas are quite large and usually flimsy telescoping ones, and your chances of finding assistance vary widely across the continent. The range is also quite limited. If you're a ham, you probably already have a portable VHF or UHF radio, most of which are reasonably compact - maybe 1 X 2 X 6, and hams often have repeaters which greatly extend the range of the radio, as well as allowing, in many cases, autopatches (self dialled telephone interconnects) to the telephone system. I do suggest that you forget about re-charging systems while hiking. Most handhelds today have as an option a battery pack capable of taking AA alkaline cells. My Radio Shack HTX-202, for example will run 7-8 hours on a fresh pack. Leave the rechargeable pack on the radio, and take along a spare set of alkalines and holder, as well as a roll up portable antenna to extend the range if necessary. If you're not a ham already, you need to study the regulations, etc, as well as some elementary radio theory and pass a test before you can get an amateur radio license in either the US or Canada. It's not hard, but probably not trivial, either, and I don't suggest you do this unless you're interested in radio generally. emd@ham.island.net (Robert Smits Ladysmith BC) ========================================================================= Fri Jul 8 12:51:19 1994 Message : #14772005 From: Don Haines Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 311 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use In article <070794210011Rnf0.79b4@ham.island.net> emd@ham.island.net writes: > >Assuming that you're serious (I've never seen the magazine you mention), >and that what you want is emergency communications, I suggest you use a >portable cellular telephone ... Well my friend, I live in Ottawa Ontario, which has close to a million people in the surrounding area. If I drive North for 30 minutes I can go do a day hikeand be out of cellular phone range for most of the day. Cellular phone coverage is for areas where people are, not the backcountry. There may be coverage in most of the U.S. but most of Canada has no coverage. There are major roads where you can drive for four hours between the spots of cellular coverage. Try using that cellular phone on any of the rivers in Canada's north. An earlier thread on the net was "is there anywhere in the continental U.S. that is more than 10 miles from a road". We have lots of places that are over 500 miles from the nearest road. THAT'S BACKCOUNTRY!!!!! >If you're a ham, you probably already have a portable VHF or UHF radio, >most of which are reasonably compact - maybe 1 X 2 X 6, and hams often >have repeaters which greatly extend the range of the radio, as well as >allowing, in many cases, autopatches (self dialled telephone >interconnects) to the telephone system. Same problem, but not as bad. VHF and UHF radios tend to be "line of sight". Try picking up that repeater as you canoe down that steep canyon. ============================================================================ Fri Jul 8 17:20:59 1994 Message : #14794467 From: rthompsn@nbnet.nb.ca Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Length : 491 words Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use In article <1994Jul8.122745.24104@clark.dgim.doc.ca>, writes: > >Assuming that you're serious (I've never seen the magazine you mention), > >and that what you want is emergency communications, I suggest you use a > >portable cellular telephone ... > > > Well my friend, I live in Ottawa Ontario, which has close to a million... > >If you're a ham, you probably already have a portable VHF or UHF radio... > Same problem, but not as bad. VHF and UHF radios tend to be... One of the best items to carry in the backcountry for emergency use would be one the new personal EPIRBs. (Emergency Positioning Indicating Radio Beacon), They are now available in the new 406 version. They are about as small as some 2Mtr handhelds, and would provide better coverage and protection then most any other kind of communications gear. No licencing is required, but they should be registered. HF gear would be unreliable due to atmospheric conditions. VHF/UHF would depend on nearby links, which most likely would not be available. Just my 2 cents........ =========================================================================== Sun Jul 10 20:10:42 1994 Message : #14834415 From: Bob Witte Address : bobw@col.hp.com Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use Alan Silverstein (ajs@fc.hp.com) wrote: : > I have yet to take it out of the pack in the backcountry and I hope I : > never need to. : Heck, you need to take it out occasionally and play with it. First, : this will prepare you for An Actual Emergency -- you'll be familiar with : the characteristics, range, limitations, etc. of the equipment. : Second, it's fun! I think the first comment is an important caveat. Whenever I hear someone recommend an amateur radio HT for emergency use I always wonder if the person carrying it will take the time to get familiar with the radio, understand VHF propagation, learn where all the repeaters are (both physically and RF-wise), etc., etc. If not, the radio is most likely excess baggage. Bob Witte / bobw@col.hp.com / Hewlett Packard PMO / KB0CY / (719) 590-3230 ======================================================================== Mon Jul 11 08:09:00 1994 Message : #14846176 From: Hal Lillywhite Address : hall@macs.ico.tek.com Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use In article grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) writes: >I am completely happy with an Icom W2A with the extended transmit and >receive modifications using a lithium AA battery pack. >This rig is able to hit everything from 121.5 satellites to National >Park Service in the 170 Mhz range, not to mention and equally wide >swath in the UHF area. A *serious* word of warning here. It is usually fairly easy to modify amateur radios to work on nearby commercial frequencies. However except for emergencies it is illegal to transmit on those frequencies with anything except a "type accepted" radio. Type acceptance is a fairly involved and expensive process which you wouldn't want to do for a single radio, it is worth the expense only for manufacturers who will make and sell a lot of radios to recover the investment. (I am not familiar with the Icom W2A but I suspect it is not type accepted.) Amateurs are allowed to transmit with non type accepted radios in the amateur bands only. Commercial frequencies (which include SAR and Forest Service frequencies) have much tighter equipment requirements. On a commercial frequency it is not enough that your radio meet specs, the FCC must have certified that it will meet those specs. Violation of these regulations can result in *large* fines (kilobucks). In an emergency you can bend this rule but only in a real emergency (the FCC will have to agree it was an emergency and that no other suitable means of communication was available). This also applies only to the communications necessary to deal with the emergency, don't call up the rescuers to thank them on a non-type accepted radio. Yes, my 2 meter set is modified to transmit on SAR frequencies but I have never used it there, and the only time I would use it there is in an emergency. Even on SAR operations I use it only on amateur frequencies. On SAR frequencies I use a type accepted radio provided by my unit. This can be a pain in the neck but that is the law. The FCC has recently been cracking down on those who violate this rule, including several SAR people. There was an article about this in a recent issue of the Mountain Rescue _Forum_. (I could probably find it if somebody wants a reference.) Be aware that in the U.S. *only* the FCC can regulate such things. I am personnaly aware of cases in which state SAR coordinators or local sheriffs have issued letters to SAR personnel "authorizing" them to use non type accepted radios on SAR frequencies. Those letters are not worth the paper they are printed on. The local or state authorities may own the rights to use the frequency but they do not have authority to authorize a particular radio on that frequency, only the FCC can do that. This is a perogative which the FCC guards rather jealously. Any local authority issuing such a letter is misinformed and will likely cause trouble for both themselves and anybody acting on their misinformation. Personnaly I would like to see this rule modified to allow use of non type accepted radios in SAR training and operations, provided those radios transmit no more than 7 watts. This would simplify things for many of us. (Type accepted radios typically cost several times as much an non accepted radios and usually do not have all the features of an amateur rig). However until such time as the rule is modified (if ever) I will continue to obey it. Anybody care to join me in a letter writing campaign to the FCC? =========================================================================== Mon Jul 11 10:11:49 1994 Message : #14849806 From: Kenneth M. Gianino Address : gianino@sbctri.sbc.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use I tend to agree that a portable cellular is the most graceful way to accomplish a rescue. However, if that's not a viable alternative, a civil aviation band (116-137MHz AM, worldwide) HT is a good alternative. The fact that all the receivers are at 2000 to 30,000 feet AGL eliminates the need for any special power or antenna considerations. A legitimate Mayday on 121.5 MHz or an intelligently chosen approach or center frequency will produce a response. It is still unlicensed operation, but now at least the radio is type accepted! Also, now you won't be stepping on the local sheriff's toes and your legal dealings will be limited to the FAA and FCC. Prices for these radios are only slightly higher than "Ham" HT's and (as a bonus) most of them receive the weather frequencies (162.55 and such, FM). You just have to decide if you want to play or you want to get rescued. A good dose of natural common sense would be essential and highly recommended! -Ken ============================================================================ Tue Jul 12 00:33:49 1994 Message : #14871909 From: aneml@orion.alaska.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use In article greenman@terra.oscs.montana.edu (Bruce Albert) writes: >... There is no perfectly reliable method. You need to check with local >agencies in the area you will be visiting to figure out which method is most >likely to be effective. > > Dr. Bruce Albert > aliba@msu.oscs.montana.edu I can add just a few other suggestions to Bruce's good advice. When hiking in areas far from highways repeaters or human settlements you can communicate with commercial airliners. They have a chat channel (I think it is 123.4 Mhz but I am not sure) and they have regular communication channels. When going out into deep wilderness we learn about the timing of the commercial airplanes flying overhead. If something happens we carry a ham radio to call them. We also carry an emergency locator transmitter such as the ones that Bruce described. If there is a particularly bad river crossing or challenging section of the hike we pay a small plane pilot to make a fly-by and check on us after a few days. Eric aneml@orion.alaska.edu ============================================================================ Wed Jul 13 19:09:07 1994 Message : #14936115 From: Jim Ficklin Address : jficklin@nmsu.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Radios for Emergency Use One other possibility for those who want unlicensed access light weight near universal coverage... Ham is out if repeater isn't available in your backcountry area... Ham low-band isn't all that light weight... Cellular no good if backcountry is away from coverage (ie. much of Canada)... CB is next to worthless due to poor durability of most cheap CB hand-helds congestion on the bands and sporadic dependability that anyone will hear listen and/or help... So what's left? If money is no object try satellite phones. They cost but many are very light weight and you can call from almost anywhere in the world. (Some exceptions: very deep very narrow canyons; caves; during very heavy rain.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jim Ficklin Program Manager KRWG-TV New Mexico St. Univ. Las Cruces NM ============================================================================ Fri Jul 15 10:12:35 1994 Message : #14986478 From: Donald R. Newcomb Address : dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use Jim Ficklin wrote: >So what's left? ARGOS? One way data telemetry twice each day. Low weight low power not too expensive reasonable location accuracy. The "monitoring agency" (Service ARGOS) will (for a fee) check the data for "panic conditions" and notify someone by phone. You can also have someone else do it if they have access to a LUT (Local User Terminal). -- Donald R. Newcomb * University of Southern Mississippi dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu * "The God who gave us life gave us liberty dnewcomb@falcon.st.usm.edu * at the same time." T. Jefferson (1774) ======================================================================= Wed Jul 20 03:05:59 1994 Message : #15109482 From: Greg Opland Address : opland@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use SARINFO@mindlink.bc.ca (Search & Rescue Info) writes: >We had a recent incident along these lines that is worth passing on. >Last weekend some hikers got lost on a trail not far from Vancouver. >They had a cell phone with them and called directory assistance to get the >phone number of Search and Rescue. They called and yes asked for >directions. They were day hikers who were apparently (among the few in our >area) equipped and prepared to spend the night if they had to but by making >the call they saved us a night of thrashing through the bush looking for >them. >Of course I am greatly concerned that people will become reliant on such >things and don't want to see this become a regular occurance. We'd much >rather hikers be prepared carry the 10 essentials map etc. ... after all >where would they be if the phone's battery went dead? Heard this a couple of years ago... Tuscon Arizona early '90's...two rock climbers were several hundred feet up the face of a formation call Leviathan Dome just north of Mt. Lemmon and apparently got off route and dead-ended unable to figure out how to get up. They called the local climbing shop (Summit Hut) on their cellular phone to talk to them about how to get off the climb. After a short discussion on where to go (not the end of the discussion) the batteries in the phone went dead. The guy at the climbing shop figuring these guys would need a rescue and called one out. Meanwhile the two climbers had gotten just enough information to put two and two together and get to the summit. ------------- Greg Opland - opland@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com =========================================================================== Wed Jul 20 17:08:35 1994 Message : #15131031 From: Hal Lillywhite Address : hall@macs.ico.tek.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use opland@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com writes: SARINFO@mindlink.bc.ca (Search & Rescue Info) writes: [Stories deleted about people getting lost and using cellular phones to call for directions.] We had a case here a bit more than a year ago of a cellular phone helping someone out of a self-created jam. A group (three guys I think) set out to climb Mt. Hood in the face of an incomming storm. They thought they could beat the storm but were very unprepared in case they didn't (cotton clothing no warm clothes or bivy supplies etc.). You guessed it they did not beat the storm and got caught near the summit. Even with the phone they would likely have died except that it happened that some members of Portland Mountain Rescue were camped at nearby Illumation Saddle and had a radio. This allowed them to reach the climbers in time. Those climbers certainly had more luck than good sense. I suppose you could say the cellular interfered with evolution. ========================================================================= Thu Jul 21 12:11:08 1994 Message : #15156324 From: benjamin goldman Address : g-man@bu.edu Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : Re: Radios for Emergency Use Bruce Albert (greenman@terra.oscs.montana.edu) wrote: : Options available: : 1. CB radios: heavy. An excellent option in some areas esp those with : active REACT organizations or near major highways. Worthless in other : areas. You might call local law enforcement in the area you want to : visit to see if CB is monitored by law or private groups. : 2. Ham radios: light and compact. You can get a "no code" Tech license : which is basically knowing the regulations and enough basic theory not : to plug the batteries in backwards. Beware of running your batteries : down listening to other conversations though. Useless in some areas : though there are few populated areas without mountaintop repeaters. : The ARRL Repeater Handbook for about $7 lists the locations and call : signs of repeaters worldwide so you can check that out first. : 3. Cellular phones: good general coverage in more popular areas. But not : in some; where I am. I can generally get through from the trailhead : but not in the backcountry. Mountain areas have spotty coverage. Can : be very expensive in terms of month-to-month charges unless you have : other reasons for owning one. The Motorola Star-trek communciator style : is small and light but only gives you about 15 minutes of air time. : 4. EPIRB's: (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons) similar to the : things built into the tails of airplanes to help alert and pinpoint : crashes. Satellites monitor the frequencies so you can be pretty sure : of being heard. The more expensive 400MHz models have better locating : features but you're looking at upwards of $1000. The less expensive : 121.5/243 MHz units are light and convenient. But the FAA says : something like 95% of all signals are false alarms. I don't know what : that means in terms of responses but it's discouraging. : There is of course no way to talk with rescuers this way so : the time to get from them to you is much greater with this method as : they must hunt you down. I guess it basically guarantees they will : eventually find your body. :There is no perfectly reliable method. You need to check with local :agencies in the area you will be visiting to figure out which method is :most likely to be effective. : You might also wish to consider a solar panel for keeping the batteries up : to snuff unless you go with lithium (as in the epirb's). : Dr. Bruce Albert : aliba@msu.oscs.montana.edu ************************************************* this is important. EPIRB's are extremely effective I mean I know of a group who pulled it and were picked up by a coast guard hele the size of a large house within the hour. They may cost a lot and they may ruin your trip but they are the ultimate life saver. Ethos out the door safety is more important than anything else. If you are going where nobody else is or has bring a radio or else you may be in trouble and the romanticism of dying on a climb etc is a load of shit. Your girlfriend spouse children or friends (or all of above) have to suffer for your stupidity and pride. Get a head and get a HAM. g-man@acs.bu.edu