*** Avalanche Rescue Balloons *** From: Mick McLennan Newsgroups: rec.skiing.backcountry Subject: Re: Do avalanche cords work? Date: 10 Oct 1995 02:14:37 GMT Organization: Department of Engineering, ANU, Australia bhc2@Lehigh.EDU wrote:>> So far, I have seen some good arguments concerning my original question. I >am glad the point about balloons tied to the end of a cord came up because >that was actually going to be my next question. I have heard this method >is very unpopular and has in fact been proven to be virtually useless. >Just because of the fact that carrying a large helium balloon around in >possible high winds or bad weather could prove to be a pain in the ass, >I can't understand why this couldn't be modified somehow to be less of a >hassle. For instance, what if a cartege of compressed gas were to deploy a >balloon in the event of a slide? >> While skiing in New Zealand last year I met some Swiss blokes who use that kind of balloon system. It consists of a backpack that attaches more like a parachute. In the lid of the backpack is a folded up balloon and gas cylinder. A rip cord was attached to one shoulder strap. When caught in an avalanche pull the rip cord and out goes the balloon. The idea being that the balloon and person will end upon the surface of the slide. It is not advisable to fool around with it though because the cylinders could only be refilled in the UK apparently. The Swiss said that it was supposed to be very effective in light snow and while not so effective in wet slides still worth wearing to improve the odds. They also wore beacons though! The unit was quite expensive, about $1500. I have never heard or seen of these when skiing in the states.Does anyone know why? Do they really work or have just never caught on for other reasons? Mick. email: mclennan@faceng.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: Weapons against avalanches (was: Do avalanche cords work?) Date: 12 Oct 1995 16:22:41 GMT From: bell@uswest.com (George Bell) Organization: US WEST Advanced Technologies >A year or two ago there was a guy in Aspen who developed a >variation of this- if memory serves, it was a type of vest which inflated >when a cord was pulled, providing added buoyancy if one were caught in a >slide. I don't know if anything came of it. I have a hard time believing any kind of "life jacket" would actually work in an avalanche the same way it works on water. You are caught in a medium (i.e. snow) that has a very low density compared to yourself, and which is moving at high speed. Sure we hear people talk about swimming upward while in an avalanche but I'd think the mechanics of this were more like surfing than swimming up from the bottom of a pool. As I understand it the role of these helium balloons is not to pull you up to the surface of the avalanche, but to mark the spot where you are buried when everything comes to a stop. It's basically an avalanche cord which always extends vertically above you and has a bright orange marker at the top (the balloon). -George From: ddb@gr.hp.com (Dave Bohn) Newsgroups: rec.skiing.backcountry Subject: Avalance Air Bag: Am I Nuts? Date: 22 Apr 1996 16:14:31 GMT Organization: HEWLETT PACKARD - Greeley, CO My friends think I am nuts, but when I was skiing this past weekend I had this flash of brillance about a device to protect a skier from an avalanche. This is the idea: Have a air bag type of device which the skier deploys when in an avalanche. The air bag would stay inflated. This would "float the skier on top of the slide" and keep them from being buried. I would think the bag would be about 6 feet in diameter. Please comment. I always thought beacons were kind of useless and difficult to use and too expensive.BTW, if this is a good idea I do have patent protection in process, and I have several other patents, so I understand the process. Dave. From: brendan@cs.washington.edu (Brendan Mumey) Newsgroups: rec.skiing.backcountry Subject: Re: Avalance Air Bag: Am I Nuts? Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 19:45:34 GMT Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U of Washington, Seattle As your patent search will no doubt discover, they already exist. They seem like a good idea for day-touring in dangerous terrain but add too much weight for overnight use. Here's a message I saved from last year: Brendan From: Giselher Schneider Newsgroups: rec.skiing.alpine,rec.skiing.nordic,rec.skiing.snowboard Subject: Re: ABS Avalanche Self-Rescue System Date: 25 Jan 1995 18:49:34 GMT In article <3fvt1u$3ug@pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk > Nick Thomas,nick@mlbg79.btlabsmh.bt.co.uk writes: >I was told that the ABS was developed in Munich. Does >anyone have any information or experience with it? The ABS balloons were invented a couple of years ago by the german alpine club. I am not aware of any reports of people in a real avalanche with an ABS balloon. During tests it always kept dummys afloat. They are available as separate unit or integrated in a backpack. Remember that staying on top of an avalanche is only one factor. Still you might die from being crushed against rocks, wrapped around trees falling over cliffs etc. For more information write to the German Alpine Club: Deutscher Alpenverein Praterinsel8000 Muenchen Germany From: snowco@vossnet.co.uk(Colin John McCubbin) Newsgroups: rec.skiing.backcountry Subject: Avalanche Air Bag: Nope, not Nuts! Date: 14 May 1996 00:18:07 +0100 Organization: Voss Net Online Well, it exists and works... In Europe a custom rucksack including baloon and gas cylinder is sold in the name ABS. The gas bottle is about 9 inches long by 2" diam. and the idea is that the balloon (more like a pillow about 20" thick and a few feet diameter erupts from the sack if you pull a ripcord positioned on the front harness. (don't try this in a crowded room;-) The idea is that the snow in an avalanche whilst flowing is a fluid and the balloon acts to make the balloon/skier combination less dense than the fluid (snow) so as long as the snow is moving the skier/bag floats to the top of the snow. Once the snow stops and sets up it is useless. I have seen film of dummies thus equiped ending up on top of debris, and they seemed to be worn by all the off piste ski school classes in Davos, Switzerland this year. If anyone wants more info I will try and get details in English from the German company who makes them (there are several models I believe and I could post details address etc here at sometime in the future.) Best wishes, Colin McCubbin Skiing...Flight without wings. ------------------------------