*** Building Snow Caves & Shelters *** Fri Nov 4 09:11:00 1994 Message : #18465428 From: Bill Rhodes Address : brhodes@panix.com Group : Usenet.rec.backcountry Subject : How to build a snow cave? From Secrets of Warmth by Hal Weiss Anywhere the snowpack is sufficently deep, you can probably build a snow cave.The snow should be consolidated enough so that it does not collapse as you dig. Sometimes a steep area will have plenty of snow at the bottom, even if it's just the steep face of a boulder. Dig into the side of a snow mound rather than into the front,where the snow deposits. Also, be careful not to dig in at the bottom of an avalanche slope. If the snow is the right consistency, the best way to dig a cave is to cut blocks and remove them. The best tool for a snow cave is a snow saw or a pruning saw (or machete, bayonet, et cetera). Next best is a shovel. Or use anything that will work. How to build: Start low on the snow drift and dig a hole straight in about three feet in diameter. Turn up at abhout a 45 degree angle for another three feet, then dig straight in again and start enlarging the area in front of you. Poke 1 foot long sticks into the outside of the snow mound. That way when you're digging it out, you can tell when the roof is 1 foot thick. Angling up at 45 degrees before you dig inward will make your sleeping platform higher than the air inlet, so you will be in the higher, warmer air. Dig out enough to make a shelf for your waterproof groundcloth, foam pad and sleeping bag. If neccessary, you can create a wide enough area for two or more people. Form an inner dome by carving the snow overhead. This will give the cave needed strength. Smooth the overhead snow dome as well as you can to prevent dripping. Make a hole in the roof with a stick or ski pole for ventillation. If you intend to use a stove or make a small fire, create the vent hole right above where the stove or fire will be. The vent should be about two inches wide, in use it will widen by melting some of the snow around it. Make sure the cave opening is large enough to admit sufficient air for the cave occupant(s) and the fire. You can carve a few small shelves for items you want to keep handy. The smaller the snow cave, the warmer it will be. Larger caves with interconnecting chambers are for fun times. Caves just large enough to hold its occupants huddled together are the most appropriate for emergencies. Now some more words from me.... I agree with practically everything he says here. The only things I would add is to remember that if you use a candle lantern it is also a fire -as I found out as it tumbled out through the hole it melted in my wall once! and be sure to take your digging tools INTO the cave with you, as you never know when you will have to dig out of the thing. Likewise keep your ski pole /walking stick in the cave to keep the top vent open, it would really suck if that froze over somehow. Also, you have to block off the entrance at night to reduce air flow, but not enough to stop it. This is eaiser said than written, believe me, when you are in there, you will see! Other than that, in a non survival situation, there is no greater fun than messing about with snow caves. I try to build one every winter as early as possible in an out of way place and use it again and again if I can. There are other options for using snow as a shelter if the snow is not right, ranging from trenches to igloos. I am also sure there a re other books which cover this, I just like this one. Got it at REI. If there is anything else I can do to help, let me know. Bill Rhodes *** How to Build a Quinzee *** From: Paul Wake Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Snow houses Date: 7 Jan 1996 03:38:08 GMT Are there techniques other than building with bricks? - Yes, and it's a lot simpler than trying to make an igloo. It's called a quinzee -this spelling is wrong; I'm too lazy to look up the right spelling. If you can put a tall, thin pole in the ground to mark the middle of the pile, you might do so. Then pile snow up (use a snowshovel). It's work, so be careful about sweating too much in the cold,or you'll get cold. Once you have a big pile (how big depends on how biga shelter you want), let it set for awhile. Then take some thin sticks (if you have some about) and poke them into the sides of the pile just afew inches, all around, so that the pile looks sort of like a porcupine. Then dig a tunnel into it from the bottom of one side, to the center pole if you used one, and start hollowing it out. You'll know when the wall is about the right thickness when you reach the inside end of the little sticks you've stuck in the pile (you'll also know when you see a blue glow in the walls from the outside light); you don't want to make the walls too thin or burrow right out. Try to keep the inside as smooth as possible, so water drips less. Take out the center pole and remove all the ridiculous looking sticks from the outside. You might well want to carefully punch a ventilation hole in the roof. If you want, you can shape a little entrance tunnel, plan the structure so the doorway is below the level of the surrounding snow, or so forth. A way to do the whole process faster is to pile up a bunch of gear and then pile the snow on top of the gear; when you dig into the pile, you'll pull out the gear, leaving an open space there and requiring less overall snow throwing. A good structure should last for days even in relatively warm weather (over time it slowly slumps down and outward, in sort of a very slow fluid manner (which, of course, it is)). In really cold weather I'd think it would last much longer; pretty good for a simple pile-and-dig-out structure! It's kind of fun just to build one out in the yard after a big snowfall and just let the kids play in it. **** Cold Weather Snow Shelters *** Sun Jan 7 12:40:15 1996 Message : #37213213 From: Philip Lussier (Mohawk) Address : plussier@k12.oit.umass.edu Subject : Re: Snow houses Mark D Holbrook (holbrook@world.std.com) wrote: How do you make a snow house? Efficiently? : 1) Are there techniques other than building with bricks? (E.g. make a : big pile and hollow it out?) The powder house or quincee is made by piling loose snow, allowing it to set for an hour or more, and hollowing it out. : 2) What does one do when the temperature is so cold that all the : available snow is loose and won't pack into bricks? Cold powder snow will pack very efficiently if you give it time. Jon Deleo of Lyndonville State College teaches how to make igloos by packing out a "quarry area" of snow ahead of time using snow shoes. The snow needs to have some reasonable depth to it but he's said that as long as it doesn't compress to less than 6 inches the blocks you cut from the quarry area will still work. This is the method I use most for building igloo-type shelters, but the time involved (packing, waiting for the blocks to set, cutting blocks and assembling the igloo) is longer than for a powder house in most cases. : 3) Is snow in the arctic commonly very icy or already quite packed and : therefore cutable into bricks with a saw or ice ax? Yes. Most igloos are built from snow that is cut directly from the snow pack. The wind is what makes it firm, not iciness. In fact, icy snow is much poorer in insulating power than dry wind-packed snow. The fastest method by far is a snow cave. Find a snow drift of sufficient depth and hollow it out. You can be in out of the cold in less than an hour if you have a good-sized shovel (aluminum grain scoop -- cut down with a removable handle is my tool of choice.) (Philip Lussier (Mohawk) Subject: Re: Cutting snowblocks Date: 4 Jan 97 17:18:03 GMT From: "M. Cogut" Organization: Telus Advanced Communications Newsgroups: rec.skiing.backcountry I have found that a cheap traditional wood saw ($8 in Canadian Tire) works better than the specialized ones that you see sold in recreational stores for $40. You need to find a slab of snow that is consolidated enough to stay together. This can sometimes be found in small wind-blown cornice type snow (not the big dangerous stuff). 1.) Make a cut on the right that is 18inches down and about 12 inches from front to back, angle it a bit to the left (this makes it easier to get it out. 2.) Move to the left 3 feet and make a cut on the left that is 18inches down and about 12 inches from front to back, angle it a bit to the right (this makes it easier to get it out). 3.) Make a cut on the bottem that connects the right and left cuts. Angle it down in the front just a bit. 4.) Connect the left and right cuts on the back. The block will make a whmmpf sound and FALL into your hands. It will weigh about 60lbs, so be prepared for the weight. If you find the right type of snow you can MINE these blocks by just continuing in the same place to make the second one. If the block falls apart, find better snow. I've made some incredible structures from these blocks. Dug down for a kitchen, and surrounded the camp with a 5 foot wall and just slept in bivy sacks on the snow with the wall around us and the dug in kitchen as a cold sink. This worked great. Have fun. They are not really practical for Igloos (at least in the Cdn. Rockies) because it is a lot less work to dig a snow cave or quinzee (sp?). tknk@dancris.com wrote in article <5ajoka$kup@alnilam.dancris.com>... -----------------------------------------